Health Care

5 Flavors of Public Option

Published October 26, 2009 @ 06:00AM PT

Ice Cream

This week will reveal the frustrations of a representative democracy more than any in recent history. It’s too much to expect our Congressional representatives to vote based on what a majority of their constituents want, a public option that is cost-effective and covers most of the population. Between partisan politics and the measurable effect of even small amounts of insurance lobby money, constituents seemingly can’t make their voices heard. So Congress will be presented with 5 flavors of ice cream from which to choose. Here are the public option flavors of the week, and if you need a little musical flair to get you excited about them, we’ve got that too.

First, from the Billionaires for Wealthcare, who crashed the AHIP annual meeting in Washington, D.C., last week, here is “The Public Option” sung in show tunes:

Now that you’re in the public option mood, here are your flavor choices:

House: Medicare Part E
Under any of the options below, the House bill covers 96-97% of Americans, includes a generous $700 billion subsidy package to help people afford insurance, expands Medicaid, and includes an employer mandate. As far as we know it still includes funds for the “doc fix” so physician Medicare payments aren’t reduced by 21% next year. Bill funding is designed to come from taxing incomes over $500,000. Whichever option is selected will be revealed soon, as Nancy Pelosi intends to release the House bill this week and hopefully hold a floor vote next week. She’s efficient!

  1. Medicare +5%: Pelosi’s favorite, this is the most robust public option under consideration and considered the most ambitious, though it would cost the least. As it stands, it would pay physicians Medicare rates +5% and hospitals base Medicare rates. CBO estimates it would cost $871 billion and be deficit-neutral over 10 years.
  2. Medicare Negotiated Rate: Same concept as #1, except it would negotiate rates with providers instead of having them tied to an existing benchmark. Pelosi considers this option likely to get more votes, and as she caucused on Friday with a “live whip”, requiring each Representative to voice their level of support for each option, she should know. Sorry, no cost estimates on this one, but it would shift more cost burden to the states by raising Medicaid eligibility from 133% to 150% of the poverty rate.
  3. Medicare Trigger: This option would, as the name implies, only kick in if private insurers weren’t meeting pre-determined metrics after a prescribed period of time. It is pretty much dead, as Pelosi is putting together a far bolder package than Harry Reid and company in the Senate.

Senate: Public Lite
As it currently stands, the Senate bill costs approximately $829 billion, covers 94% of Americans, includes a $450 billion subsidy package to help people afford insurance, expands Medicaid, and does not include an employer mandate. There are no funds for a “doc fix” – this provision was included in a stand-alone bill and defeated. Bill funding is designed to come from taxing family healthcare benefits over $21,000.

  1. State Opt-Out: Chuck Shumer’s baby, it’s the “I’m not government-run” public option. A non-profit board would be established and given federal seed money. All states would initially participate in this more affordable insurance option, and would be given the opportunity to opt out in 1-3 years. In a nutshell, this is the Giant Co-op model, trying to establish a new Blue Cross Blue Shield-type insurer answerable to the government.
  2. Trigger: Olympia Snowe’s proposal surprisingly found its way into bill merger discussions. Surprisingly, because she seems to be the only one who supports it. Like the Medicare Trigger option, it is designed to kick in at some point in the future if conditions aren’t met. History has shown that healthcare triggers are destined to fail, including ones in HIPAA individual plans (federal government couldn’t determine that state approaches failed), and Medicare physician payments (set up an annual political battle with no solution.) If you are thinking that this is the “No Public Option” option, you’re right. That’s despite 70% of Snowe’s constituents supporting a public option.

So there you have it, 5 flavors of ice cream. They can be summed up as Mocha (bold and rich), Coffee (bold), Coffee Tofutti (bold but not real), Vanilla Ice Milk (little flavor with sharp ice crystals), and Ice Cream IOU (a worthless piece of paper.)

Photo david.nikonvscanon // CC BY 2.0

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Comments (40)

  1. Michael Kirsch

    Which one of the 5 flavors of 'public option' have tort reform?  None, of course.  Why isn't this one of your priorities?  I don't expect you to support it simply because the system tortures innocent doctors like me.  I thought, however, that you might support it because it would save billions of dollars on unnecessary defensive medicine.  How can anyone defend a system that wastes tons of money and exposes the public to the risks and expense of unneeded medical care?  See www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com

    Posted by Michael Kirsch on 10/26/2009 @ 06:14AM PT

  2. Gillian Hubble

    Michael--I am personally very in favor of tort reform, as I know it would decrease your malpractice premiums and make a dent in the costs of defensive medicine.

    I'm sorry to see it used as a political football, that, if included as part of a public option proposal, most if not all Republicans wouldn't vote for anyway. Medicine deserves better than that.

    Posted by Gillian Hubble on 10/26/2009 @ 06:18PM PT

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  3. Harold Lewis

    There were past posts from Tim Foley where it turned out that States with tougher tort standards did not show either lower tort costs or lower medical costs.

    However, there is much evidence that tort insurance premiums rise without a direct connection to actual liability. Insurers are so wonderful!

    Can we get an example fo doctors being "torutred" by a lack of tort reform, i.e. an abridgment of civil rights?

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 08:12AM PT

  4. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    Tort reform, last I heard, even by republican analyst standards, would only effect less than one percent of the healthcare bill.

    Also, people need to be able to hold doctors and hospitals accountable if they make dangerous mistakes that ruin people's lives.

    Yesterday on one of the MSNBC shows, it showed that the waste they refer to needing to be cut out of healthcare expenses partly has to do with doctors practicing too much defensive medicine.

    How come the large amount of dollars identified as waste because of defensive medicine doesn't match up with the Tort reform estimates is beyond my limited comprehension.

    But I do know it has become a trumpet from the right at the expense of all of the other more important issues in healthcare reform.

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:30PM PT

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  5. Harold Lewis

    You said it!

    Like so many other economic aspects of health care, "defensive medicine" in response to "tort costs" makes logical sense even if the reality is different.

    Have to get conservatives out of their Vulcan mind-set. Markets and human relationships are not always rational.

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/29/2009 @ 05:38AM PT

  6. Karoli Kuns

    Tort reform is indeed included in the House bill. it may not be as robust as you'd like, but then, neither is the public option. :)

    Posted by Karoli Kuns on 11/01/2009 @ 03:08PM PT

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  8. PoorMansLobbyist DotOrg

    Great article. I just hope that the next time I take my kids for ice cream, they aren't denied service due to a pre-existing taste bud or due to too much lobbying from the doughnut industry (to kill the ice cream option).

    See my thoughts on the Public Option and an Open Letter to the President at http://blog.poormanslobbyist.org.

    Posted by PoorMansLob... DotOrg on 10/26/2009 @ 10:01AM PT

  9. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    enjoyed your blog and made a comment. thanks :)

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:40PM PT

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  11. Cherokee Fred Jesus

    Posted by Cherokee Fred Jesus on 10/26/2009 @ 12:03PM PT

  12. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    I LOVE THEM! :)

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:41PM PT

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  14. Thomas McHugh

    Give me and everybody else mocha...

    Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/26/2009 @ 01:40PM PT

  15. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    well! it IS the best choice in an espresso drink! Gaaah :)

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:41PM PT

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  17. dana torres

    This is an emotional issue for many Americans.  This so-called “public option” in Government run health care presents serious challenges for us.  As Consumers we should be able to compare the cost and quality of health care services. How much is a specific surgery at one hospital, as compared with another? http://www.friendsoftheuschamber.com/media/

     

    Posted by dana torres on 10/26/2009 @ 02:12PM PT

  18. Harold Lewis

    As patients in need of health care services, the only concerns are that needed care is timely and effective. Whether we're looking at primary care services and prevention, disease care/ treatment, or essential surgeries, the choice should be simply what works best for each of us in achieving the end result.

    When we view consumption in terms of price rather than need and "shop" for services based on economic constraints, we bring care down from a universal human right based on shared human need to an individual economic right based on individual economic status. We are diminished.

    What we need, in aggregate, is to know that whatever costs we share in providing health care services for each other are spent in pursuit of the best treatment options at prices that assure providers a good living, well-kept/ operated facilities, and motivation for advancing knowledge and technology.

    As individuals, we should rest easy knowing that we will get what we need because we provide for those who need. Lock down the pricing, set a high standard based on a real example as the benchmark for quality services and do what it takes to bring those services to every part of the country.

    A person in dire need or a family under stress cannot and should not be comparison shopping for the care that is their right.

     

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 07:56AM PT

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  19. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    Friends of the U.S. Chamber? HA HA

    The only friends they have are big corporations.

    Yeah, I trust THEIR data.

    And stop saying "Government Run Healthcare"

    It's just Health INSURANCE

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:42PM PT

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  20. Laurence  Lewin

    Unfortunately, quality is very difficult to measure, as doctors have known, and consumers are finding out.

    Posted by Laurence Lewin on 10/29/2009 @ 11:00AM PT

  21. Gillian Hubble

    While that used to be true, it's not the case any more. You can access the series of posts on measuring quality and pay for performance initiatives here: 

    http://healthcare.change.org/blog/view/pay_for_performance_why_you_should_care_part_3_of_3

    Posted by Gillian Hubble on 10/29/2009 @ 11:22AM PT

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  23. james m nordlund

    No trigger, exactly, because the reality of what happens with triggers, or should I say doesn't happen with triggers, they don't get pulled.  It just gives years, or decades, to the healthcare and medical industrial complexes, as well as the Congress and the President to varying degrees, to figure out, and do what they deem they have to, in order to stop the trigger from being pulled; or, delay it being pulled until there's no longer the support for it being pulled, etc..  This is a favorite with the remocrat conspiracy, because the corporate structure will pay whatever they have to, donating to the politicians, anti-healthcare public relations, so, they can determine the trigger doesn't get pulled.  Related is the insistence on "bipartisanship", which has almost sunk the world‘s, not just the nation's economy.  You see, if there are no remocrats to, "insist on bipartisanship", with, then the dempublicans don't have the excuse (the cover) as to why they're collaborating with the corporate structure against the majorities', the people's, interests, then their true intent is revealed; they want to get paid by the corporate structure- where they get exponentially more $ than the salary we pay them from.  A fair example, was Senator Harry Reid, President Barack, suggesting they might have to go with the, "trigger", in order to get Senator Snowe (white's) one remocratic vote for it; when they were just hoping they could 'get away with it', in order to get paid more by the corporate structure; yet, so far, we've not allowed them to ‘get away with it'- and we must continue   :)

    Sample short letter to the editor   :)

    Subject, as relates to an article in the (name of the newspaper) on healthcare reform:  Please, really reform healthcare, a strong public option is a minimum:

    HI.  The clock is ticking, every 5 minutes another person dies because they do not have health insurance; someone you know might be next, soon- the time to act for real healthcare reform is now.  If you have heard something that concerns you, have a reality check on republican healthscare spin, check out Non-partisan   :) 

       http://www.FactCheck.org.

    As well, please, advocate for single-payer healthcare, with Community First Choice Option and CLASS Act (Community Choice Act for the handicapped, elderly, autistic, disabled, etc.); H.R. 676 & S. 703, are the best of the lot, so far.  Thanks.  Goodbye.

    Yours Truly,   (add your name, address, phone #)

    reality

    Posted by james m nordlund on 10/27/2009 @ 02:22AM PT

  24. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    Hey James, wanted to let you know that i heard it's every twelve seconds someone dies from not having access to healthcare. Woops, there goes another one....

    Thanks for the great post and your passion. :)

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:44PM PT

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  26. Harold Lewis

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 06:09AM PT

  27. Harold Lewis

    I'm curious concerning Harry Ried's State opt-out option on the public plan. Are there States where a minority of voters would accept the public plan? Are those minorities so small that a majority ought to deny the option? Have any of these Senators given though to the fact that they are further polarizing and politicizing the issue by making this an issue of State election cycles?

    The appeal to conservatism in making the public option more appealing to conservatives if there is a State opt-out is unfounded. Winston Churchill, no slouch as a conservsative came out in favor fo the NHS: "The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all. That is clear. Disease must be attacked, whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman simply on the ground that it is the enemy; and it must be attacked just in the same way as the fire brigade will give its full assistance to the humblest cottage as readily as to the most important mansion. Our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available."

    It was a later strain of Tory, Thatcher & Co., in the vein of Goldwater/ Reagan/ Rand-devotees and their opposition to Medicare and public programs in general, that the NHS was somewhat hobbled and underfunded. We are facing a conservatism which has a more nouveau pedigree than their mock-originalism would have us believe. It lacks vision, ideals, progressivism, or populism and concentrates on the microcosm of the individual alone, not as part of society and community, as the highest good.

    Is that a sound reason to want a State option on the public option? We already have an imbalance in Medicare across State lines, do we want to develop more disparities among Americans with respect to human needs?

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 07:01AM PT

  28. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    I agree, Harold. Opt out...Opt in...triggers, they find excuses for avoiding the cleanest solution. We have to watch closely while they try to move goal posts.

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 11/10/2009 @ 10:53AM PT

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  30. Michael Kirsch

    To Harold, if you want examples of legal 'torture' against physicians, ask the next 5 physicians you come across.  If they are honest and alive, you will hear my point being echoed.

    With regard to your assertion that health care is 'their right', this is a complex issue that cannot easily and fairly be reduced to a slogan.  See http://bit.ly/3t84KU

     

     

    Posted by Michael Kirsch on 10/27/2009 @ 09:41AM PT

  31. Harold Lewis

    Michael,

    Since you asserted that there is legal torture of physicians such as yourself, I would assume you can provide an example. I don't need to listen for echoes. I'll settle for an example from your experience.

    As to tort reform, any offer to curb our civil rights in court must be taken far more seriously than any economic impact. The amount that actual torts cost the medical system is quite small, about 2% of aggregate cost. Nevertheless, it is possible that defensive costs, far more difficult to quantify, are not being fully considered. So, as a  doctor, what is it that you do which is wasteful and costly to patients, lowers your income, and decreases your effectiveness in order to protect yourself from the injustice of a lawsuit?

    When it comes to health care as a human right, we have:

    "We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all-regardless of station, race, or creed...The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health" (State of Union Address, 1/11/1944, Franklin Roosevelt)

    " (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection." (UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25)

    There is no complexity or sloganeering regarding the assertion of these rights. Their assertion predates this conversation by more than half a century and out of our own, great American heritage.

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 10:23AM PT

  32. Michael Kirsch

    Hi Harold. I have performed colonoscopies and ordered CAT scans for defensive reasons, as has every other honest gastroenterologist.  I am regarded as a relatively conservative practitioner by my peers, so I surmise that my colleagues' volume of defensive studies are higher than mine.

    With regard to health care as a 'right', is there no element of personal responsbility?  Does a man who won't take his medicines, see his doctor, wear seat belts, breaks speeding limits routinely, etc, still have an inalienable right to health care?  Is this fair to the rest of us?  What if we don't have enough money to give everyone 'adequate medical care'?  What happens when the individual's 'right' to health care conflicts with society's rights? Even the rights to assembly and free press are not absolute. 

     

    Posted by Michael Kirsch on 10/27/2009 @ 10:55AM PT

  33. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    every other democratic nation treats healthcare is a right.

    if you follow that logic, other democracies are more humane to their citizens than good old America.

    We are the best is no longer true. Even kids in other countries are outpacing our own, easily.

    I worked for doctors for years, and never once heard one complain about malpractice insurance. They just made sure to do their jobs the best they could and hoped for the best.

    If you want tort reform you should lobby the lawyers, they are the ones gauging you.

    Excuse us, but we have bigger fish to fry than solve your problems for you, a whole country is in crisis, and all you care about is tort reform.

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 10/28/2009 @ 03:50PM PT

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  34. Laurence  Lewin

    In the WHO's World Health Report, 2000, "Health Systems: Improving Performance," the United States was ranked 37th in health care performance amongst 191 nations.  Quoted on page 248, T.R. Reid:  "The Healing of America."  Penguin Press, 2009.  The book is strongly recommended for its primer on health care economics and "distributional ethics." (William Hsaio)

    Posted by Laurence Lewin on 10/29/2009 @ 11:17AM PT

  35. Lauren Serven

    It's hard to believe that a physician would use this lame excuse. Sure there are those who do not take responsibility for their health...so the solution is to base health care access on market principles with the hope that people will take care of themselves because getting sick or having an accident will be expensive????? Isn't that why we have the problems we now face??? Isn't your role a  doctor that of educating your patient??? Oh, I guess there is no compensation allotted for that with the private insurers.

     

    Doc, where is the compassion in your approach??? You are missing the point. YOU, not an insurance company, should be partnering in patient care. There is more to a healthy outcome than patching up a patient or discovering a colon polyp. 

     

    Physicians see people in the most intimate of physical and emotional ways. Personally, I would not want to be cared for by a doctor who did not see his or her care for me as my human right and the ensuing privilege to administer that right to  me. It is sad that the most noble of professions has been reduced to a system of reimbursement rates. It is even sadder that despite all the "debate" on reform, the idea of caring for people is still not viewed in a more humanistic light.

    Posted by Lauren Serven on 11/01/2009 @ 02:10PM PT

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  37. Harold Lewis

    "I have performed colonoscopies and ordered CAT scans for defensive reasons, as has every other honest gastroenterologist."

    I can deal with that if what you're saying is that these tests left you no more or less certain of a diagnosis and were entirely superfluous. But doctors are not perfect and misdiagnoses occur on a daily basis even where extensive tests are performed. A test "just to be sure" is not a test performed defensively, it is performed to increase certainty and diminish doubt. For those of us without medical training, it isn't a question of your honesty, it's a question of your certainty.

    "With regard to health care as a 'right', is there no element of personal responsbility?"

    Yes, we are responsible for each other. Not every individual can take responsibility for himself, e.g.  children or the mentally challenged. But we can each look to the other and see the need. Those of us who can look after ourselves ought to in order to free up resources for those who cannot or do not.

    "Does a man who won't take his medicines, see his doctor, wear seat belts, breaks speeding limits routinely..."

    or isn't a vegan or at least a vegetarian, goes to MacDonalds too often, drinks coffee, drinks wine with meals, doesn't drink at all, eats red meat, goes hang gliding, drives to work, crosses busy streets, lives in an inner city, plays in a softball league, goes mountain biking, skis, or makes any choice which puts him at risk of sickness or injury...

    ", etc, still have an inalienable right to health care?"

    Well, yes, if the right is inalienable, it can't be taken away. Judging each other keeps us divided. Life is messy and things happen, stuff goes wrong and we deal with it.

    "Is this fair to the rest of us?"

    What if we questioned the fairness of allowing those with political views different from our own vote and make decisions? Health care is not a reward for who you are and what you do or don't do - think or don't think. It is caring and compassion among people. You posit this as if the virtue of looking after yourself has a reward other than the benefit of good health and the ability to enjoy life that good health brings.

    "What if we don't have enough money to give everyone 'adequate medical care'?"

    The whole purpose for any system of economics is to distribute goods to satisfy the needs of people. If the needs cannot be met at current prices, the prices will be brought down even at the expense of others' wants. All that is essential is that costs, not desired prices, are covered. No one needs to make more than a living off of sickness or injury.

    "What happens when the individual's 'right' to health care conflicts with society's rights?"

    In order for society to have rights, there must be an expectation that the society, us collectively, have a claim against each as an individual. That would run counter to the tone you've set. But I would say that society is the duties we have toward each other by virtue of each person possessing sacred rights. At the top the list is our right to life. Anything that affects that right, for whatever reason, is dealt with first. Without this right, no others have any meaning. Health care is required for life.

     

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/27/2009 @ 02:19PM PT

  38. Laurence  Lewin

    Human rights are based on consensus: Diarmid J G Weir, former general practitioner, Edinburgh, in letters to the editors, British Medical Journal, 1999http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116979/

    "Editor—Doctors, among all those whose work is based on the scientific method, must guard most against taking apparently logical arguments too far. Barlow's rejection of the proposal that health care is a human right is such a case.1 He bases this rejection on three points: that health care is difficult to define; that it is not clear whose duty it is to provide health care; and that “it is difficult to find any rational or utilitarian basis” for viewing health care as a human right.

    The value and justification of human rights is not that they can be derived from abstract principles but that they represent a consensus view of what all of us owe to each other. In this way human interdependence has a chance of producing positive rather than negative outcomes. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 is the most widely accepted expression of this consensus and has been signed up to by many nations whose people would not agree on religious or social principles.2

    Article 25 of the universal declaration states: “Everyone has the right to … medical care.” On the basis of this, health care is a human right. It is this that makes tackling the difficulties of deciding appropriate and affordable levels of care so urgent, not just for doctors but for politicians, economists, and the rest of us."

    Scotland, the Brave!

    Posted by Laurence Lewin on 10/29/2009 @ 11:32AM PT

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  39. Harold Lewis

    Brilliant! thank you.

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/29/2009 @ 12:13PM PT

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  41. Michael Kirsch

    Harold, I have reviewed your thoughful comments. For me, the issue is more complex.  Instinctively, I might also state that there is an inalienable right to health care, particularly since I am an MD.  With more thought, however, I have pulled back from this.  I do not agree with you that every individual should receive this 'right', regardless of his own irresponsible behavior.  Despite your idealistic intentions, resources are not infinite.  While I may wish for everyone to have access to health care, I am reluctant to conclude that this is a natural right.  I also wish for everyone to have a job, a successful marriage, prosperity 6 wks vacation each year, but there is no entitlement for these objectives.  Even the Constitution doesn't guarantee a right to happiness, only a right to the pursuit of happiness.  I think, Harold, that the issue is deep and goes beyond the individual.  My opinion may evolve, but at present, these are my thoughts. www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com

    Posted by Michael Kirsch on 10/28/2009 @ 05:49PM PT

  42. Harold Lewis

    Believe me, I am tempted toward your view concerning individual behavior but I pull back because of friends, family, neighbors. I believe in living and enjoying things in moderation from physical exercise to diet. But I'm surrounded by extremes, both overindulgence and puritanical temperance.

    Do I assert my brand of moderation as responsible living or should I be penalized for not having the right moderate mix or not being puritanically ascetic? Judging each other doesn't help.

    I know that to achieve the goal, we need to aim high and seek to fully acknowledge, protect and secure our human right to health care. I know, also, that we won't achieve this perfectly. But, if we aim for modest gains, avoiding the issue as a right, we will certainly achieve something less than those modest gains.

    I firmly believe that human needs can be almost entirey fulfilled with existing resources if the distribution is just. Will everyones' desires and subjective needs be met? Absolutely not. Will many feel short-changed? Absolutely. Does that negate health care as a right? No.

    So, it's kind of like the "never events" you cite in your blog.They should never happen but they will. The best we can hope for, even with constant improvment, is to keep them to a minimum. We'll have to accept that minimum and not penalize for failure to comply 100%.

    In the same way, we should accept health care as a right and constantly improve our efforts to secure the right for everyone. For now, we stand alone in the civilized and industrialized world in denying this right. To paraphrase our Declaration of Independence, we have not shown a decent respect to the "Opinions of Mankind" in our reasoning.

    Posted by Harold Lewis on 10/29/2009 @ 07:45AM PT

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  43. Lauren Serven

    Do not hide behind the notion of complexity. There is no gray area here. Health care is a human right and for those who are not acting responsibly it IS the physician who should encourage, cajole, scold, whatever it will take to get a patient to take more responsibility for one's health. 

     

    Until Doctors take responsibility for their patients, we will continue to see patients not taking responsibility for their health.  Could it be that physicians are afraid of alienating patients and thereby losing them to another who might take a less aggressive approach?? I can sympathize, but why can't physicians practice a little more "tough love" in their exchanges with patients who take their health less seriously? Isn't it your duty to help the patient see the harm they are doing to themselves?

     

     

    Posted by Lauren Serven on 11/01/2009 @ 02:22PM PT

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  44. CherokeeGirl  for Change

    Yes Lauren! It is not as complex as they try to make it. They think our eyes will glaze over and we'll lose interest. Keep it simple senator (KISS), should be the rule. :)

    Posted by CherokeeGirl for Change on 11/10/2009 @ 10:55AM PT

  45. Reply to thread
  46. james m nordlund

    Good day to you, and thanx for all you do and don't, All. CGFC, Me, as well, your work is excellent. Single-payer is what "we,...", need, yet, with the uber-greed addict party, the remocrats, having run the roost for the previous 8 years, it's plausible that the dempublicans, the 'kind'er and gentler corporate agents, would only allow a public option to be squeezed out of them by the public; yet, we must keep up the pressure to make sure it's a real, strong, and actually a public option, at minimum. Not a half measure that will end up giving everything to the healthscare and medical industries, and cover to the dempublicans for 'trying their best'; being 'foiled' by those "dirty rats“, the remocrats- while the dempublicans, in secret, laugh all the way to the bank, having been bought by the corporate structure too, not just as much as the remocrats. No ‘trigger’, for reasons I stated above, the state opt-in is worse than a state opt-out, although, both allow the South to just move to the North, before they need long-term healthcare, meet nominal residency requirements, and get the public option on the North’s taxpayers backs; effectively, making the North pay for the whole nation’s coverage of the people who get the public option. Which might sink it, and, supposedly, give the remocrats the false ammunition to re-‘asserted “it failed because the Gov’t was involved“, etc.. Also, the remocrats bringing tort reform into this is a non-issue, as you say, yet, you’re missing some salient points. First, the remocrat doctors scream about the rising cost of ‘malpractice insurance’, because they’re doing most of it on purpose. Because, they’re mediocre, don’t care, want to charge patients more with band-aid medical ‘treatment of symptoms‘, engineering revolving door or unending patients, routinely suggest, order, unnecessary, and redundant medical tests, treatments, prescriptions, follow-up visits, etc.; for greed, not need. Second, they also are the predominant number of doctors who destroy and murder patients for political and classist reasons, for the remocrat con$piracy, mainly. Please, it’s not too late, advocate for single-payer healthcare, with Community First Choice Option and CLASS Act (Community Choice Act for the handicapped, elderly, autistic, disabled, etc.); H.R. 676 & S. 703, are the best of the lot, so far; i.m.h.o.. Related group and actions :)

    http://www.singlepayeraction.org//join.html

    reality

    Posted by james m nordlund on 10/28/2009 @ 11:32PM PT

  47. Laurence  Lewin

    Medicaid Expansion is a Poison Pill for a Democratic Congress:

    Any expansion of the so-called safety net, which includes MediCal (Medicaid) and the diabolical IMS (Indigent Medical Services, in Orange County, CA, will fail. As a nephrologist for 42 years in Santa Ana, the demographic I serve is largely uninsured, the lucky ones having MediCal. I see anyone with kidney disease whether they can pay or not, but I can't run tests, get x-rays or help from my colleagues who refuse to see the unfunded and the underfunded. And, the bureaucracy places hurdle after hurdle in front of the few doctors who are willing to see this very sick group of people. No wonder, after years of insidious neglect, they end up in crisis for an expensive ER encounter that might have been avoided. Most doctors don't like Medicare reimbursement, but we can live with it, and those of us who see the profession as a commitment and not as an entrepreneurial opportunity to nourish a profit center, will get by, complaining as we go. Fewer doctors will see more MediCal patients making a bad situation, worse! So Medicaid expansion defines a plan for failure, and a suicide pill for a Democratic Congress. The electorate, with their usual insight, fanned by Fox and the demagogues of the right, will see the opportunity for "competition," once again, and the muddled middle will switch sides.

    Posted by Laurence Lewin on 10/29/2009 @ 11:25AM PT

  48. Michael Kirsch

    Laura, I do not agree with you.  You seem to assign health care as a human right without any requirement for personal responsbilility.  I also disagree that the physician should assume the responsibility for the patient's health care decisions and behavior.  Every day I counsel patients as best as I can to protect their health.  But, I am not responsible if they reject sound medical advice or pursue risky lifestyles that result in illness or injury.  Before assigning them an inalienable right to health care, in my view, we must consider how this affects the rest of us, particulary as resources are not infinite.  www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com

    Posted by Michael Kirsch on 11/01/2009 @ 03:08PM PT

  49. james m nordlund

    Hi. Good day, and thanx for all you do and don't, All. Karoli,    You have a rational perspective, this blog is lacking, on the whole. CherokeeGirl,    Gotta admire your persistence, though, it’s a common misconception that remocrat conspirators are "just ignorant, or lacking information, and all we have to do is educate them"; they're pathological liars thinking they're garnering delusional profits and pleasures from playing political poker with the very existence of humanity and large mammals- how dangerous they are can't be under estimated. Laurence,     Yes, human rights, like most mores, ethics, morals, ethos, are based on consensus, although, if I may veer from your communication of one of the Madonna School of Knowledge’s tenets (their classic being everything is where you find it), in reality, that’s simply not true; for, the basis of all rights, while, individually, being that of comfort, needs met, and self and ego preservation, while being sociological, where consensus is fundamental, and societal, where historical realism, market necessity, and the supposed need of society to replicate itself are paramount, it is, elementally, evolutionary, universal, truth of life, discerned from the only right that actually exists in the universe- the right of life to defend itself. Also, while it may seem pedantic, or semantic, to articulate discernments in such a way, it’s not only necessary, for, as necessity may be the mother of invention, we can’t forget its father is the evolution, it’s a matter of life and/or death, on a grand scale. Not only is the clock ticking, as every 3 minutes another person dies because they don’t have health insurance, the remocrat process of ‘saying the opposite of the truth 200 million times, so, it beats your truth, being told only 200,000 times‘, as the ‘control‘, of the multi-media conspiracy is the ‘control’ of the corporate structure’s convolution’s largest consumerism addicted nation, US, supposedly, will ‘get’ them that ‘have it like that’, so, the healthscare industries can ‘get away with it’, their premeditated mass-murder masquerading as healthcare, it’s ticking on the actual existence of humanity and large mammals. For, 100’000’s of ‘scientists’ agree, the doomsday clock is at 5 minutes to the hour of humanities extinction, the point of irreversibility of the destruction of ecosystems; ergo, exact, accuracy is of the utmost import in every issue- which will, only then, pull the veil away, and the public see the remocrats pathological lying process for what it is. Yes, “why tell a truth when you can tell a lie”, “no good deed should go unpunished”, etc., can be practiced, they have ‘rights‘, yet, in spite of that being the fact, and the consensus, those rights are also wrongs; and our accuracy in communicating how might might seem to make right, while it always makes wrong, is basic to reminding people, not only of their civic, human, life, responsibilities, made exponentially more by their fathers and forefathers not exercising their responsibilities and, thereby, heaping them on their progenies shoulders, yet, also of the time, their time, their place in history- will they rise to the occasion, or will “humanity be extinct with a whimper”. In sum, the extinction is the largest and strongest ‘organizing’ ‘tool’ that humanity has ever faced, or has engineered, and the remocrat conspiracy supposed garnering of it through replacing humanity with exigency, the supposed necessity for “unending war”, etc., is what they‘re ‘all about‘, from tea baggers to moderate remocrats, to dempublicans ‘who insist “…we,…“ go down with the bipartisanship‘; and they mask their fascism in supposedly “being passionate about every issue”- while they’re just increasing the speed of their supposed Christian blitzkrieg of all life to stop the evolution from denying them the extinction they’ve engineered. The real left, struggling on every issue, for everyone, in every way , every moment of everyday, have given their lives to stop that extinction, , they think they ‘have’; don’t you let them ‘get it’; feel and relate more, be more thoughtful, introspective, insightful, and accurate, not less; remember, the machine can’t replicate if you refuse to ‘unbecome’ into a ‘part’ of it, divide and conquer can only work on the divided, the life is indivisible, 14all41- viva la evolution. As well, no trigger, for, they don't get pulled. Please, advocate for single-payer healthcare, with Community First Choice Option and CLASS Act (Community Choice Act for the handicapped, elderly, autistic, disabled, etc.); H.R. 676 & S. 703, are the best of the lot, so far. Thanx, again. Ciao.  :)

    reality

     

    Posted by james m nordlund on 11/02/2009 @ 12:26AM PT

  50. james m nordlund

    the latest   :)

    support women's healthcare now

    http://womensrights.change.org/actions/view/support_womens_healthcare_now

    As well, no trigger, because triggers don't get pulled.  Also, please, advocate for singlepayer healthcare, with Community First Choice Option and CLASS Act (Community Choice Act for the handicapped, elderly, autistic, disabled, etc.); H.R. 676 & S. 703, are the best of the lot, so far; i.m.h.o..

    Related actions and group   :)

    Healthcare Reform Actions   :)

    http://healthcare.change.org/actions/view/healthcare_reform_actions

    http://www.change.org/profile/189788/actions

    http://www.singlepayeraction.org//join.html

    reality

    Posted by james m nordlund on 11/11/2009 @ 05:43AM PT

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Gillian Hubble

Gillian Hubble is owner of Actively Fused, a consulting and healthcare advocacy firm, and a partner in KDG, a business development firm.

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